Random Computer Shit

[AAA]

If you're satisfied in knowing that in 3-5 years your SSD will become read-only then you ignore all possible avenues to reduce write cycles. Another problem is the infinity of what's written and one day a dumpster diver will have that data. This is satisfactory for our through away culture because they really don't understand these repercussions. HDDs have a cache to alleviate some of the burden of a performance hit with the help of the OS disk scheduler and more so when doing parallel IO. It's all up to the user and their priorities. The 2nd link everyone should read no matter their configuration because it has many optimizations.

Honestly, the controller is more likely to take the shitter than the nand flash, had a first gen SSD, left page file and all the other crap that reads and writes often. the SSD lasted around 2.5 years. the controller hit the shitter, and the SSD was dead. RMA, got a newer and better SSD. was careful with it at first, then i thought to myself, if i have a SSD mind aswell make it work its ass off. you can put one or two of your fav games on it.

i get what youre saying, but for the average user, web browsing/installing and playing one game or so on the SSD, they wont hit the write limit on the SSD, and something else is definitely going to hit the shitter before the write cycle.
if he does do alot of file swapping and read/write intensive stuff, yes it will wear out. thats when you move things to a scratch disk.

 

[up-n-atom]

Honestly, the controller is more likely to take the shitter than the nand flash, had a first gen SSD, left page file and all the other crap that reads and writes often. the SSD lasted around 2.5 years. the controller hit the shitter, and the SSD was dead. RMA, got a newer and better SSD. was careful with it at first, then i thought to myself, if i have a SSD mind aswell make it work its ass off. you can put one or two of your fav games on it.

i get what youre saying, but for the average user, web browsing/installing and playing one game or so on the SSD, they wont hit the write limit on the SSD, and something else is definitely going to hit the shitter before the write cycle.
if he does do alot of file swapping and read/write intensive stuff, yes it will wear out. thats when you move things to a scratch disk.

That is very true. They are also very susceptible to failure and corruption from a power outage. It's very difficult to recover data from a damaged NAND as supposed to a magnetic platter which is mainly why people store the user directory on them instead. I'm very much the exception because I use all my computers for work and require the segregation from OS. Windows and OS X don't allow much leeway in structure appose to Linux and I can't say I notice a slowness when data is being read/write from/to the user partitioned HDD because it's seldom and minuscule. Hardware RAID and TRIM are also very troublesome but we've got Software RAID as a compromise and RAID 0 can bring cheaper SSDs to another level. Again it's all about priorities and it's good to have all these partitioning schemes at our disposal and cheaper hardware can allow all of them to play a part.

 

[OG buckshot jr]

I still, to this day, haven't seen any proof that an ssd fails from being written to. I think people forget than an ssd is exactly akin to RAM (you wanna talk about read/write beatings, talk to a ram stick), memory cards for cameras/phones, etc. My point is that these fuckers take serious beatings and I KNOW everyone has that piece of shit 2GB flash card sitting in an old sock drawer somewhere - and the bitch still works.

I use my ssd's. Having just the OS on it is absolutely, 100% useless. Wanna shut your shit system faster? Hold the power button lol

 

[Shotgun Jesus]

DAT OLD ASS 2GB STICK

 

[Fork Included]

My first computer upgrade was going from 4 megs of ram to 16. I was playing diablo 1 at the time and this significantly boosted my map load times, was so happy.

 

[Glocky]

Love the fact that the reference is to an article from 2012, because SSDs haven't improved at all since then. /sarcasm

Further, modern first tier consumer grade SSDs (MLC flash) can handle at least 700TB (testing is on-going and passing 1PB) as tested by a site I've actually heard of instead of one that hasn't been updated in 18 months.

Then you need to do some math... as the write durability will depend on what you're doing.

Using the lower figure, 700TB = 700,000 GB and figuring someone worried about write durability would want the lowest drive fail rate (Samsung), new MLC tech (840 or 850) and a 5 year warranty (Pro) = Samsung 840/850 Pro

700,000 GB / (5 years x 365 days) = 383.56 GB a day, every single day for 5 years

or for fun, 1 PB = 1,000,000 GB

1,000,000 GB / (5 years x 365 days) = 547.95 GB a day, every single day for 5 years

This site estimates typical usage as follows:

What does this mean to you? If you are creating or editing spreadsheets, documents and presentations, you'd have to be pretty busy to update even a gigabyte per day, or a terabyte every 2-3 years.

If you are editing video or music you might write 100GB a day, or a TB every 10 days, and it would take you over 13 years to reach 500TB. ​

Conclusion: Use your SSD, backup it up like any other drive, and if all else fails use the warranty. If you're using something like nVidia's ShadowPlay PVR, set up a RAM drive for the continuous recording that will save to your SSD/HDD only when you choose. Save all your media files, downloads, and infrequently used programs to a HDD and back that up too.

Personal Info: My Samsung 840 Pro is 16 months old, it's current write usage is 17.98TB and I didn't move ShadowPlay PVR off to the HDD or RAM Disk in the first 6 months (at which time it had 15TB I believe which means 3TB in the next 10 months), so there's extra usage there as I was playing a lot of BF4/BL2 which is about 375MB a minute. So if all things remain consistent, I might have 100TB of writes to it after 5 years, but given the higher early usage, I would suspect that it will be closer to 50TB. If I hadn't changed my ShadowPlay PVR set up, I would have 150TB after 5 years. I have about half my Steam games on my 1TB HDD and the others on my 256GB SSD with BF4, OS and other frequently used programs.

 

[Sushicutter]

My first computer upgrade was going from 4 megs of ram to 16. I was playing diablo 1 at the time and this significantly boosted my map load times, was so happy.

lol the good ol days! my first computer had less than 1gb storage. Just enough space for os, corel wordperfect, couple other programs, and starcraft

 

[Cock]

Love the fact that the reference is to an article from 2012, because SSDs haven't improved at all since then. /sarcasm

I love you glocky

 

[up-n-atom]

Love the fact that the reference is to an article from 2012, because SSDs haven't improved at all since then. /sarcasm

Re-read my post because I used the article as an example on the proper way to separate User from OS during a Windows install and that's by using an unattended install, which the article pleasantly describes. I even specifically said that you may go further on with the article at the cost of performance.

If you exceed the space of your SSD an HDD is the best way to go for additional storage and most everyone does so already. Again you can combat the HDD performance by using RAID 0, jump up to 10 or 15K RPM HDD, and add a small SSD as a cache drive using Intel Smart Response Technology or other software on WIndows. On OS X you're shit out of luck with their bullshit Fusion Drive, while on Linux bcache or dm-cache are excellent.

The fact remains NAND is finite and eventually it will wear out even if that means 10-30 years down the road. For someone who enjoys the nostalgia of booting and using old hardware and software it's a bitch but I'm sure 20 years from now there will be a duct tape solution like we use today for magnetic remanence decay.

Anyone else notice the prices for SSD have gone up slightly yet again by like $10-20? CES is coming up and I would've expected some inventory clearance to be happening.

 

[Cock]

The fact remains NAND is finite and eventually it will wear out even if that means 10-30 years down the road.

If you're satisfied in knowing that in 3-5 years your SSD will become read-only then you ignore all possible avenues to reduce write cycles. This is satisfactory for our through away culture because they really don't understand these repercussions.

3-5 year or 10-30 years? Some where in the middle?

 

[up-n-atom]

3-5 year or 10-30 years? Some where in the middle?

Depends if TRIM is being issued by the OS and if the controller supports it and/or isn't buggered and doing garbage collection. I still have a 1st gen non-trim running and another is a S(hit)andForce so the 1st applies with the 2nd being hypothetical dating on when if ever for current/next generation or however long it takes to hit the limit.

 

[Glocky]

If you're up to the task and want to do a "proper" install that utilizes your HD and increases the longevity of your SSD, ie. Windows on SSD and Users on HD. You can even go further by moving Program Files, ProgramData, Temp, etc. onto the HD for greater longevity at the cost of performance.

Install:

http://www.brileigh.com/windows/ins...sers-program-files-and-programdata-folders-2/

Install/Setup:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1156654/seans-windows-7-install-optimization-guide-for-ssds-hdds

Oh I read the article, but you established the false premise for the need in the first sentence.

Then when you're queried on the need to do the steps in the 2012 article, you respond:

If you're satisfied in knowing that in 3-5 years your SSD will become read-only then you ignore all possible avenues to reduce write cycles.

Then when I put some math to whole thing with actual testing results, you become a revisionist:

The fact remains NAND is finite and eventually it will wear out even if that means 10-30 years down the road.

All computer parts can and will break down if given enough time, abuse or just straight up use. A certain amount of sense to back up or migrate data to newer (and hopefully safer / more reliable) technology is required. All the Steam games I had on my first gaming rig from 1997 is on this current rig (I can play CS 1.x if I want to).

But please don't take your personal experience with "1st gen non-trim running and another is a S(hit)andForce" SSDs and make it apply to all SSDs in all cases, especially in a gaming forum where the population is generally tech savvy and interested in bang for the buck (if it breaks prematurely that's poor bang for the buck, right?).

Speaking of reading links / posts, I'll pull out one of the embedded links and the relevant material for your reference.

http://techreport.com/review/26523/...eriment-casualties-on-the-way-to-a-petabyte/3

The petabyte club
As their comrades fell around them, the Corsair Neutron GTX, Samsung 840 Pro, and compressible Kingston HyperX 3K drives soldiered on to 1PB without issue. That's kind of miraculous, really: a bunch of consumer-grade SSDs withstanding one freaking petabyte of writes. None of these drives are rated for more than 200TB.
​

Don't buy the cheapest, but back it up like it's the cheapest and you'll be fine.

 

[up-n-atom]

Not going to argue something as finite as an SSD and there is no false premise because every write is 1 you can't get back. I will change the life again! 1 day to 100 years because there is a quantified limit and and undefined scalar and that's the point. Your link tries to define the limit while my links try to avoid it. I also can only speak from experience, as can you, and we can only wholeheartedly express it as a suggestion.

Zackychuu has an HDD, he wants to buy an SSD, his HDD is partitioned in two: OS (250 GB) and Data (750 GB), he wants to do a fresh Windows install on the SSD while utilizing his HDD, I supplied a two links: 1st explains Microsoft's built-in mechanism for separation, 2nd explains features one may disable that writes data maybe not required by the user. Everything afterwards is just noise.

I use my ssd's. Having just the OS on it is absolutely, 100% useless. Wanna shut your shit system faster? Hold the power button lol

I strongly advice you not to do that especially if your SSD doesn't have power loss protection or reliably implements it. http://lkcl.net/reports/ssd_analysis.html


PS. Anyone buying go with Samsung, Intel, and whomever else manufacturers both the controller and NAND to ensure you're getting a top to bottom solution. This is what happens otherwise:

http://techreport.com/review/26664/alleged-bait-and-switch-tactics-spur-kingston-pny-ssd-boycott

If it isn't already, it will become:

http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3554 (Read from 2nd paragraph for the 1st half, same technical underpinnings apply to an SSD)

 

[Glocky]

Wanna shut your shit system faster? Hold the power button lol

I strongly advice you not to do that especially if your SSD doesn't have power loss protection or reliably implements it. http://lkcl.net/reports/ssd_analysis.html

Agreed, but I suspect Buckshot was being facetious.

PS. Anyone buying go with Samsung, Intel, and whomever else manufacturers both the controller and NAND to ensure you're getting a top to bottom solution. This is what happens otherwise:

http://techreport.com/review/26664/alleged-bait-and-switch-tactics-spur-kingston-pny-ssd-boycott

If it isn't already, it will become:

http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3554 (Read from 2nd paragraph for the 1st half, same technical underpinnings apply to an SSD)

Also agreed, (you'll like this link that supports this too) but I would go one further and suggest to never get the entry level of anything from even these SSD manufacturers as the budget lines tend to have different "tolerances" and certainly warranties.

Actually, the site StorageReview.com is going to make it into the PC guide... they are friggin serious about their test setup. Here's a pic and a link to it: http://www.storagereview.com/storagereview_enterprise_test_lab

 

[Steve]

Thats a sick test rack(s)

mine looks like that but 10 year old servers, shit racks, and terribly messy cabling lol...

 

[up-n-atom]

Thats a sick test rack(s)

mine looks like that but 10 year old servers, shit racks, and terribly messy cabling lol...

It sure is nice and clean. My lab is building up and I got some cable management problems as well. Been buying racks, switches, routers, and servers on http://www.govdeals.ca/ In the summer there was an influx of < 5 year old equipment going for tens of dollars and the road trips to pick-up items added a little to the cost (Ontario ain't small). The US site has a lot more to offer but also has more bidders, eg. 2x Dell PS4100XV 1x Cisco ASA5510 4x Dell Power Connect 6224 That's going to be a steal if you're in Tampa, Florida. The Dell PS4100XV go for 6K+ each on eBay, the Cisco ASA5510 go for 1K on eBay, and the Dell Power Connect 6224 go for 250 each on eBay. Or if you're in Maryland this seller in has 4 brand new 6U wall mount racks, great for smaller appliances like routers, switches, and modems.

 

[zackychuu]

Its been a while but i completely forgot to update this thread.
I was getting all ready to buy an SSD and a new case to start off my pc upgrades...but long story short a dental emergency has set me back for a while.

Im still going to take all of your ideas on board, just as soon as i can stop paying money to money-grabbing private dentists.

 

[amanshotme]

Its been a while but i completely forgot to update this thread.
I was getting all ready to buy an SSD and a new case to start off my pc upgrades...but long story short a dental emergency has set me back for a while.

Im still going to take all of your ideas on board, just as soon as i can stop paying money to money-grabbing private dentists.

Was it a legitimate dental emergency or was it suggested by your dentist? Mine always tries to use fear-mongering to line up his pockets lol...

 

[OG buckshot jr]

In England, everything is a dental emergency lol

 

[zackychuu]

Was it a legitimate dental emergency or was it suggested by your dentist? Mine always tries to use fear-mongering to line up his pockets lol...

My crown was knocked out during a night out so id say it was an actual emergency. I have a lovely gap right at the front of my mouth.

In England, everything is a dental emergency lol

:iseewhatyoudid: