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REVISED Ban Appeal for Jakugen

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Jakugen

I'm New Here
Name When Banned: Jakugen
Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:33609414
Game: Team Fortress 2
Server: DARKLY | Toronto TF2 Trade/Idle #1 | darklytrade.com

Ban Reason: Racism

State your case: Earlier this evening I was banned from my favorite and most frequently visited trade server for a week on the grounds of supposed "racism," or at least that is how it reads on the ban list. The reality is that I was banned by an admin that found my questioning the value proposition of his trade, which he had been spamming the server with over the audio chat, inconvenient for business. I had no microphone to use at the time so the chat logs at least should attest to the truth of my account of these events as all my communications occurred through chat. Specifically, he had been offering to buy steam trading cards each at the price of one scrap a piece at a quite frequent rate over the microphone. I commented that this was not a good value proposition for the person selling the cards in an objective value sense. He responded with, and I am paraphrasing, 'some people are unable to use the market to sell, so they should be happy to get anything at all.' I was agitated at such a remark's implications, namely that some players do not deserve value for their goods, and I believe whomever reads this might be too as the admin's actions here mirror the prohibited activities of scamming and sharking (guidelines for which are outlined in rules T1 and T2 respectively). I suspected at the time, and am now justified in light of his actions, that this admin had been abusing his position to create an echo chamber wherein those that would comment upon the ethics of his trade proposals might be silenced or banned as I was, all in the interest of allowing those ignorant enough to the value of their items, or in the weakened bargaining position he was preying upon, to be taken advantage of, all to his own advantage. Feeling as I did, i compared his statement that some people do not deserve the same value that others get to the treatment of wealthy Jewish people under the Nazi yolk being made to pay inordinate amounts for the same standards of living as those who were not Jewish. This is obviously hyperbole, but in any case is not a statement endorsing or expressing racism of any kind. Shortly thereafter I was banned by the admin in this account, that i for the record interacted so briefly with that I don't recall his name. That this should be grounds for a week long ban in the opinion of an authority abiding by the same rules as I have read is to me unfathomable. That this admin's actions represent the Darkly server family's views is to me unthinkable. Therefore, I appeal to the person or persons reading that that have the authority to revoke my ban and investigate further the circumstances of it. I am also sorry that this reads so melodramatically, but I have spent a long time on darkly servers and in my hundreds of hours have not seen this kind of activity, or felt this kind of atmosphere.
 

Cmp™

Retired Scrub
One of the policies of our servers (and a bit of trading ettiquette) is to not comment or police another trader's prices. It's rude, disruptive, and generally unneeded. Don't like the person's prices? Don't trade with them. Simple as that.

Reading through this, it sounds like you accused him of sharking, but you'll find quite a lot of people who buy cards for a scrap each, including myself. It is a generally accepted trade, so I don't understand why you took it upon yourself to condemn his prices. You then likened his trading to the mentality of a Nazi. Hyperbole or not, that's not ok. Like at all.

Jun 22, 2014 4:55:42 pm it was the same logic, not my fault the Nazis agreed. DARKLY | Toronto TF2 Trade/Idle #1 | darklytrade.com
Jun 22, 2014 4:54:57 pm yeah lol, just like the nazis allowed the jews to pay heavily to be free, for a time. DARKLY | Toronto TF2 Trade/Idle #1 | darklytrade.com
Jun 22, 2014 4:54:10 pm you are basically robbing people. DARKLY | Toronto TF2 Trade/Idle #1 | darklytrade.com
Jun 22, 2014 4:50:38 pm lol DARKLY | Toronto TF2 Trade/Idle #1 | darklytrade.com
Jun 22, 2014 4:44:27 pm lod is stuck on low DARKLY | Toronto TF2 Trade/Idle #1 | darklytrade.com
Jun 22, 2014 4:44:13 pm 2011 festives are still broken in this update. DARKLY | Toronto TF2 Trade/Idle #1 | darklytrade.com
Jun 22, 2014 4:42:51 pm you buy cards for way to cheap. I can't believe people fall for that. DARKLY | Toronto TF2 Trade/Idle #1 | darklytrade.com

Reading your chat logs, they don't reflect a very civil or even mildly respectful approach to discussing pricing. You accuse him of robbing people by naming a price, that as I stated before, is widely accepted. You then say his trading methods are just like that of a Nazi. Not the most tactful way of getting your point across.

I've identified the banning admin, Locate, and this leads me to question your approach even more. Locate is one of the bigger forces against micspam on the server, so I strongly doubt he himself was micspamming, even if it was a trade.

Locate☣ was the banning Admin, so he will be the one to decide on your appeal, but I will clarify a few things for you.
Buying Steam Trading Cards at a scrap each is not scamming.
Buying Steam Trading Cards at a scrap each is not sharking.
It is against the rules of the server to police another trader's prices. Again, if you don't like their prices, don't trade with them. Antagonizing them will result in consequences, similar to the ones you face now.
Calling someone a Nazi, or similar to one, is not the smartest move, especially if that someone is an Admin.

Also, if this could be moved to the TF2 section, I'd appreciate it. Low Budget
 

Gatherix

Death by Darkly
Just to note, Jakugen, information presented here by any parties is input, not dictated law, until a formal conclusion is reached. Conversation, rather than accusation, should be sought among all parties.

If you feel the aforementioned Admin was unfairly abusing his abilities in a manner separate from your ban and/or appeal, please contact me privately.
 

Locate☣

DARKLY Regular
So I was going to post an epic reply but Cmp already did that(thanks).

This should go with out saying but I'll say it any way, Unfoutunanly as a regular in the server you should already know the basic rules like no rasicist/prejudice comments. Out of contex I'm personaly not so strict on that kinda stuff like if its a joke or people goofing around(unless it gets out of hand). But what you said was directed towards another player an Admin no less, that is why you were banned.

http://darklygaming.com/forum/threads/darkly-server-rules.4567/
 

Jakugen

I'm New Here
An aside: I am not sure how to move this thread to the tf2 section. Could I get some instruction.

Firstly, I don't believe the act of buying trading cards for any price is scamming or sharking. I just believe that it tends towards that when anyone that comments can be instantly stamped out as I elaborated. A shark or a scam is predicated upon the lack of knowledge the victim has. Enforcing non commentary means that in this case that scams may happen whether the trade offering party intends to or not. Either way I was not made aware this was the case in all my time and thank you for the correction.

Secondly, I did not accuse anyone of being a Nazi. This assessment makes about as much sense as calling me a Nazi for proclaiming to like dogs because hitler liked dogs also. The statement that some groups of people do not deserve full compensation for the same goods or services is a belief that was expressed that I, flippantly, responded to with a vile example of the same idea. The difference is that we are on a trade server on the internet and it is easily to forget how one is treating faceless strangers, a sentiment I believe applies to locate and myself.

Thirdly, I did not claim to have handled the situation well or appropriately, I am just giving my account which was not in any way racist as the ban seems to accuse me. I was not breaking any rule I can find written, and i was stomped without clarification first, during or afterwards (until now). Obviously I agree i was rude, but I still believe that everyone as the same right to sell and that weakened groups should not be preyed upon.

EDIT: for font size a person can read.
 

Locate☣

DARKLY Regular
Firstly: You were not banned for directly commenting on my price that is no longer relevant.

Secondly: You made the comparison of "Me buying cards for a scap each" was like "I was a Nazi robbing the Jews of their freedom", that's calling me a Nazi.

Thirdly: Calling an admin a Nazi is a good enough reason for a ban.

And it is because of this your ban appeal is being denied. You are able to come back in a week, hopefuly by then you have read the Darkly server rules located here.
http://darklygaming.com/forum/threads/darkly-server-rules.4567/

Maybe I was a bit rash in my desision for a week ban, for that im sorry. If I could change the banned time I would shorten it to 3 days rather then a week.
 
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