RIP Robin Williams

[Leroy]

dat award.

 

[Cock]

Once again, a comparison to a sickness. What are you people smoking? Suicide is not HIV/Aids and is not Cancer. Stop trying to give clout to your argument. It's not. Stop saying it is.

Ehem.. I guess I need to clarify something

MENTAL ILLNESS IS A DISEASE

Here's a list of diseases
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diseases_(B)#Bin.E2.80.93Bix
*EDIT*
Here's some reading on the various mental illnesses, from the fucking National Institutes of Health.
http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih5/mental/guide/info-mental-a.htm

Bipolar disorder is listed as a disease, fucking everywhere, by people with better education on the subject of diseases then yourself. So in conclusion you're wrong, so fucking wrong.

Fuck Bipolar disorder even has a fucking genetic link,

Here, lets try:
A person with a mental illness can no more help themselves than a person who is smashed over the head with a phone, while they're not looking.

Following your analogy;
You are blaming the phone and ignoring the person as the reason of death.
You would never blame a murderer for firing a rifle because it really was the bullets (suicide) that killed them.
Courts would never be able to convict the Tsarnaev brothers of murder because it was really a pressure cooker bomb that killed people.

If you remove the WHY the HOW usually doesn't happen.
Remove the Murderer and the gun doesn't fire,
Remove the person swinging the phone and the phone doesn't hit anyone in the head.
Remove Bipolar disorder from Robin Williams, and suicide was never an option.
Remove the Tsarnaev brothers and the Boston bombings never happened.

 

[Leroy]

You and I both know we are too smart to go point-counter point. My issue is purely with the comparisons with cancer and HIV/Aids poorly disguised pity pitch. My aunt had serious, advanced breast cancer (that she beat, she's still kicking ass), and to compare that with suicide is infantile. suicide <> cancer. period. So don't compare them.

And I'm not arguing to convince you otherwise. My position is that Robin williams took the chickenshit way out. Call it what you want, a disease, a phone over the head, it's not a bloody excuse.

And it's selfish. And it sets a dangerous precedence. The kids out there need to look up to a person, a survivor, a hero, not a pity case like RW. Like school shooters that are celebrated in the media, the bomber brothers prettied up and put on time magazine, it suggests that it is a good thing to kill yourself, after all, LOOK AT ALL TEH TWITTAHR feeds!

So his suicide, celebrating by the media suggests that, you can off yourself, and people will love you when you're gone.

No, if you off yourself, you will a disgusting mess, that some poor soul has to clean up. I'm not talking figuratively, I'm talking literally.

 

[Leroy]

And for the record, I never argued that mental illness isn't a disease. So is gout. See what I did there?

pro tip: suicide is gout on the mental illness scale from 1..10

 

[Shotgun Jesus]

The wife of Robin Williams revealed that he was suffering from the early stages of Parkinson’s disease when he killed himself, aged 63, earlier this week.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/aug/14/robin-williams-parkinsons-disease

 

[Leroy]

Ahhh, NOW this is getting interesting. Having the entire frums trying to convince me that suicide is a disease is boring.

Now here, RW teetered on assisted suicide. Mind you, he didn't really need any assistance, but this is interestingly enough, where I condone the act of suicide. I think to gracefully end your life in protected care under the supervision of a doctor to be good thing.

 

[Thanatos]

You seem to have suicide and depression confused so please allow me to be perfectly clear. Suicide is not a disease, depression is. Mental illness is not something you can tell someone to just cowboy up from and shaming people with suicidal thoughts is absurd. Would you do that to someone who's schizophrenic? These are afflictions of the mind and you can't touch them or see them but they're as equally real as the cancer your aunt had.

For more information from medical professionals far smarter than you or I urge you to please read up on depression. Click through the symptoms, causes, etc. to educate yourself properly on a subject you seem completely ignorant of.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/basics/definition/con-20032977

 

[Glocky]

Besides, who the fuck celebrates death?
Celebrate life and work to avoid a similar death for the people near and dear to you.

Revisiting this based on all the posts..

Don't celebrate the death or the mode of Death. Celebrate the life (optionally lament the premature shortening) and work to understand the mental illness to decrease the chance of occurrence for those near and dear to you.

Supportable Leroy?


Sent from my SGH-1337M (Samsung S4) using Tapatalk

 

[Leroy]

>Suicide is not a disease, depression is.

it was a light troll, too easy to go full troll.

I don't care to read up on depression, as it would probably depress me. I read Cock's links and nearly ended my life, after they based societies view on suicide based on one study, conceived originally in 1967 regarding how many of 600 letters were returned. *puts gun in mouth*. This is why people can't take flaky mental illness "scientists" serious. And I'm betting for every linked article, I could find an equal and opposing one. Thus is the nature of the science of opinion.

But you are _completely_ missing the point, but to give you something to chew on, I never said suicide wasn't directly or indirectly related to depression, and I never said that depression wasn't a mental disorder. The closest I came to was, I didn't care. Which I still don't. BUT PLEASE, send me more links on national nutrition statistics, amount of panda's in the wild, and TMZ articles of badboy celebrity rock stars. I care equally about them all. MOAR LINKS!


Glocky, meeting in the middle, I support celebration of life, with the exception of suicide where your family has to clean up your mess.

 

[Freak]

And it's selfish. And it sets a dangerous precedence. The kids out there need to look up to a person, a survivor, a hero, not a pity case like RW.

What is selfish is those of us who are left behind thinking that our loved one, who experienced such debilitating pain, somehow owed it to US to live.

 

[Tick Tock Man]

Now either Shotgun Jesus is right on the money - in which case this deserves a nomination....Edit: didn't see the posts after...lol


Or the disconnect is illustrated here...

Suicide is not HIV/Aids and is not Cancer.

There are illness of the mind just as potent and potentially lethal as illnesses of the body - and they both cause severe dysfunction of the affected area..

The brain is a complex machine, and no we don't have it figured all out - but this isn't an all or nothing proposition, we do know quite a bit about the function of different regions, the chemical makeup and neural patterns, and have observed and documented how chemical imbalances affect behaviors both conscience and unconscious.

One of those well documented areas deals with deficiency in monoamine neurotransmitters, usually seratonin and dopamine, which have a measurable effect on the mental functioning of the individual in question. The mind does not exist independent of the brain, it is an emergent property of the chemical and neural interactions contained therein - and therefore wholly susceptible to any chemical or electrical imbalance. This dynamic is clearly observed in individuals suffering severe head trauma with subsequent dramatic personality changes.

The deficiency in said neurotransmitters is consistently present in individuals meeting the criteria for clinical depression, and consistently show changes to the behavior observed when taking (or not) a drug designed to target said transmitters, demonstrating a direct link between the amount of neurotransmitters available and the symptoms of clinical depression.

Compare this with diabetes - one could hardly say a person is cowardly because they fell into a diabetic coma - yet the lack of a required chemical caused a potentially lethal malfunction here as well.

Depression is a result of certain neural pathways being active while other pathways are inactive, pathways that are active in people who are lucky enough to have normal levels of serotonin and dopamine production.

Just as your body will malfunction with an excess or dearth of insulin, your mind will malfunction with a lack of neurotransmitters - neither is an act of will, nor may either be overcome by an exertion of the same.

If it is not a matter of choice, it cannot be an act of cowardice.

 

[Cock]

I have been trolled to kingdomcum

But you are _completely_ missing the point, but to give you something to chew on, I never said suicide wasn't directly or indirectly related to depression, and I never said that depression wasn't a mental disorder. The closest I came to was, I didn't care.

Up next Leroy will tell us that global warming doesn't exist,

 

[Leroy]

Ah, but therein lies the rub: It is a choice. We could take this to the very top of the butterfly wings and argue freewill, but lets remain in the trenches.

We know these truths (with a certain degree, I do not know fully the method of hanging, and even the suicide and method of execution is 3rd party)
Robin Williams tied the hangmans knot.
Robin Williams threw the rope over the beam.
Robin Williams inserted his head into the noose and kicked away the chair.
Robin Williams killed Robin Williams of his own free will.

You yourself in one of your opening lines admitted that the mind is complex and we do not fully understand it. And if it were as simple as presumably a deficiency in monoamine neurotransmitter, then there would be a barrage of chemical balancers he could take. he had the money, he had the ability, there was nothing preventing him for pursing treatment. Hell, he could even have acted as a spokesperson as a volunteer guinea pig.

However, the plot thickens, he had the beginning of Parkinsons disease. I put to you, that he couldn't deal with the trembles and loss of bodily control (which would be hard, once again I have intimate knowledge in the family regarding this), and took the easy way out.

When I speak of heroes, and survivors, and people willing to fight the good fight, I point you to Michael J Fox.

He hasn't quit.

 

[Tick Tock Man]

You yourself in one of your opening lines admitted that the mind is complex and we do not fully understand it. And if it were as simple as presumably a deficiency in monoamine neurotransmitter, then there would be a barrage of chemical balancers he could take. he had the money, he had the ability, there was nothing preventing him for pursing treatment.

Yes, he could have done a lot of things...assuming of course he was in a state of mind that allowed rational considerations of the alternatives - that's the point you are either still trolling on or blind too....he wasn't.


Edit: no matter where we end on this topic - I move that Leroy's forum tag be updated to reflect his current reigning championship...lol

 

[Leroy]

I'm not trolling. I know, it's hard to tell.

The state of mind, I think that's a cop-out though. Especially with a man with a history of taking the right choices (treatment, sobriety, etc). I challenge you to drive by your local watering hole and see people not making the right choices. Alcoholism and addiction isn't commonplace, it's fucking rampant.

I don't know how you couldn't stand "on the ledge" not not consider the consequences, especially since he had a brilliant mind.

Dumb people sure, I get it, RW? doubt it. He seemed to have the ability to "see behind the veneer".

However, this will never be known, what is mindset is, so all we can do is speculate. From my soapbox, I think if you're rationale enough to go through the motions of hanging yourself, you're rationale enough to consider the consequences. As he went through the motions, the entire point was to die. If your family cleaning up after you never crosses your mind, that's borderline sociopathic, and definitely, selfish. QED.

<edited for readability>

 

[Steve]

However, the plot thickens, he had the beginning of Parkinsons disease. I put to you, that he couldn't deal with the trembles and loss of bodily control (which would be hard, once again I have intimate knowledge in the family regarding this), and took the easy way out.

I put to you, that you're a fucking douche bag plain and simple, on par with Perplex D

 

[Leroy]

Steve, you're depressing me.

 

[Steve]

I'm not trolling. I know, it's hard to tell.

The state of mind, I think that's a cop-out though. Especially with a man with a history of taking the right choices (treatment, sobriety, etc). I challenge you to drive by your local watering hole and see people not making the right choices. Alcoholism and addiction isn't commonplace, it's fucking rampant.

I don't know how you couldn't stand "on the ledge" not not consider the consequences, especially since he had a brilliant mind.

Dumb people sure, I get it, RW? doubt it. He seemed to have the ability to "see behind the veneer".
However, this will never be known, what is mindset is, so all we can do is speculate. From my soapbox, I think if you're rationale enough to go through the motions of hanging yourself, you're rationale enough to consider the consequences. as he went through the motions, the entire point was to die. If your family cleaning up after you never crosses your mind, that's borderline sociopathic, and definitely, selfish. QED.

Leroy to suicide and understanding depression and mental diseases is akin to republicans and understanding the importance of social programs and reform.

You just can't tell some people the world isn't flat.

 

[Tick Tock Man]

I'm not trolling. I know, it's hard to tell.
The state of mind, I think that's a cop-out though. Especially with a man with a history of taking the right choices (treatment, sobriety, etc). I challenge you to drive by your local watering hole and see people not making the right choices. Alcoholism and addiction isn't commonplace, it's fucking rampant.
<edited for readability>

I do appreciate where you are coming from, I just don't think you are giving what are some worthy considerations sufficient weight in your reasoning..

You say that you cannot see how you can stand on the ledge and not consider the consequences, I suggest that people on that ledge are very much considering the consequences - they just use a different calculus to arrive at what is the best choice, and like with any rational form of thought, if you aren't considering all the factors, or not valuing them properly you are likely to make incorrect assumptions about the best course of action. The factors in this equation are the neural malfunction in the brain, and the established corresponding psychological impact. You mentioned earlier the intellect as a factor in susceptibility to mental imbalance, then drew the comparison with Micheal J Fox (who I also admire) who suffers from an illness that affects the motor functions through neural misfiring, also caused by a chemical imbalance.

By this reasoning, Micheal J Fox is wasteful arrogant piece of shit - he spills food and drink intentionally all the time, just throws it on the floor. He chooses to drool, he chooses to make people wait while he speaks - if after all the ability of your neural system to function normally has no bearing on the absolute outcome of your behavior - then everything he does is because he chooses to do it, and the shit he does makes him an asshole, right?

 

[Leroy]

hmm, now that is very compelling. I will have to think before replying.